River interviews Max Shaw at the Miami Boat Show onboard a Nautitech demo model. He covers his background sailing with his kids all around the world and why he likes the Nautiech brand and you should too. He talks about current market conditions and build times.
You can reach out to find more via his company Yacht Sales West ( https://yachtsaleswest.com/ ) located in Victoria BC. His blog is at ( https://sv-fluenta.blogspot.com/p/buyers-broker.html?m=0 ).
Interviewer:
Alright, hi, I’m River from CatamaranSite.com, a really great website where you can buy or sell your boat, as well as access resources such as videos and interviews with people from across the industry. And today we are meeting with Max Shaw from Yacht Sales West. Welcome, Max! How are you doing?
Interviewee:
Oh, awesome. Another rather warm morning here in Miami at the Miami Boat Show. But yeah, awesome. Great to be here.
Interviewer:
I’m a little envious. How is the show this year?
Interviewee:
It’s good. It was a little quiet, but for us, I mean, we’re not about selling tickets. We’re about, you know, educating people about Nautitech, building that relationship, and creating experiences. For me, if I had one serious person a day, then I’m happy. I’d rather that than, you know, a bunch of folks who were less serious. So, yeah, no, it’s been fun. We’ve been having people out to a boat at anchor every day. Yesterday we did some sailing after the show, so, you know, any day on the water is a good day for me.
Interviewer:
Exactly, super cool. So, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and your work with Nautitech, and how you got involved with that?
Interviewee:
Sure. Yeah, it’s kind of an odd route. My wife and I were both in the military for 23 years, and then in 2012 we said we needed a new adventure—one we could do with our kids. So we retired, the classic sort of sell up everything, move onto a boat, and sail away. The kids were six and eight when we left, and we came back 7 and a half years later, 36,000 miles later, with the kids aged 16, 14, and 6. So we added one in Mexico, who turned six months in Tahiti and one year in New Zealand.
We had a great adventure down in New Zealand three times, South Pacific, Micronesia several times, up to the Aleutians, cruised the Bering Sea for a while, and then it was time to come home. We lived aboard for a while and we actually just moved back into our house, which we haven’t lived in for 16 years.
So all of that was great, but then it was like, I guess I need a job. The military asked if I’d rejoin as a Lieutenant Colonel, which would have been cool, but I wanted to also do something else. We started a small marine business doing consulting, training, and project management.
Then a yacht broker asked if we would join them. So now, what my wife and I spend a lot of time doing for Yacht Sales West is helping people that want to do their own adventure, whether it’s a full-on one like we did, or six months on, six months off, or coastal cruising, or whatever. We help talk them through that process and look at the different options that are out there. Of course, part of that job as a yacht broker is also new boat sales, and we’re the representatives for Nautitech catamarans for Canada and the Pacific Northwest. We also help a lot of folks who aren’t covered by a specific territory or Pacific dealer. Most of our clients buy the Nautitech to do trips similar to what we did. So, most of our clients will pick up the boat in France, do a Mediterranean summer, and then head across to the Caribbean, and then points further west. So, it kind of fits. It doesn’t really matter where my office is; it’s more about where do the clients want the boat, and where do they want to have their adventure.
Interviewer:
Awesome, that’s quite a journey!
Interviewee:
Yeah, it’s not the classic journey to yacht broker, for sure.
Interviewer:
So how was Victoria, BC, for cruising on catamarans?
Interviewee:
Oh, yeah, so it is interesting. I was actually just part of a panel discussion at the Vancouver show on catamarans. It is a fairly conservative sailing area, so change happens slowly. We’re getting more and more catamarans there. Most of our clients actually are buying them to do the more tropical trips—circumnavigation, the South Pacific, all that good stuff. But we’re getting more and more catamarans in the area. The infrastructure is slowly changing. The marina we’re at is one of their larger tenants, and they’re slowly adapting to that. There’s just more awareness regardless of the brand, and people are seeing the advantages of catamarans. We’re lucky to have 12 months of cruising, unlike most of Canada. So, yeah, it’s slowly increasing, but it’s a conservative market. It doesn’t change quickly in the Pacific Northwest.
Interviewer:
Interesting, interesting. So as far as haulouts and things like that, is it harder for catamarans to find in that area?
Interviewee:
Catamarans were always a little bit more difficult to find the right haulout yard, but we have several that will haul catamarans, and that’s not a problem. We’ve found that most places in the world we can always find a spot. You know, we had a client in the Med who had a little “boo-boo” at anchor and destroyed two of his rudders. A few days later, we had rudders shipped to them, we found a yard, and it was a fairly easy job. We got them on their way. We keep really close contact with all of our clients, and we have a little WhatsApp group, actually, with the service manager and myself to make sure that when they have those issues, whether it’s a warranty issue or just an oops, we’re there to support them. It’s getting easier and easier to find places for catamarans.
Interviewer:
That’s fantastic!
Interviewer:
Yeah, I was just working in Fiji. Say, you know, great yard there at Vunda. No problem bringing cats in and out. Um, Fiji, so you need a little more patience than other places in the world, but, you know, there’s always a way.
Interviewee:
Nice, nice. Um, do you know, uh, I mean, it seems like Nautitech’s got a pretty robust operation going on. Uh, how many catamarans a year are they pushing out these days?
Interviewer:
Yeah, somewhere between 30 to 40. Uh, so it is a fairly niche business. Um, you know, they’re not as, you well know, you know, catamarans are such a continuum of performance and comfort. And what Nautitech tries to do is not compete with the catamaran aimed at the charter market. There’s nothing wrong with those cats, it’s just got a very different focus. Nautitech’s focus is quite often a monohull sailor that still wants to have that sensation of sailing, still wants to be able to sail upwind really well, still wants to, you know, have a fun boat that sails well in light air. I get less, you know, people start talking about maximum speeds, I mean, it’s really fast in cats, but it’s less relevant for me. It’s about sustained speeds, light air sailing ability to go upwind.
So, we were sailing yesterday. We were doing about 35 to 37 apparent, you know, without paying a lot of attention to the sails, and they were the stock Dacron. So again, it’s a different market. Of course, that always comes at—it’s all physics at the end of the day, which is easy for me to say as a mechanical engineer. You know, it comes from just having that shape, the low boom, the low center of effort, decent keel, skinny hull below the waterline allows the boat to go upwind. And then having those aft helms means as a sailor, you actually can see the wind, you see the sails—great visibility, no matter what sails you’ve got out, what tack you’re on. So, it just operates like a fast monohull.
Interviewer:
Very cool. Yeah. Um, so if somebody wanted to buy a brand-new Nautitech today, what’s the time between build and delivery?
Interviewee:
Yeah, it’s so much quicker than it used to be. I mean, we all went through that craziness during COVID where, you know, it was, you know, people say, “Oh, I really want one. I’ve got the dream,” and we’re like, “Yeah, but…” So now we actually have some available for mid this year. Uh, we have some available in July that are fairly much specified, and then from September, it’s an open book. Um, there’s slots from September where it can be a complete custom build to your own specifications.
Interviewer:
That’s awesome! Yeah. In your opinion, like, how’s the market trending right now for catamarans, in general?
Interviewee:
Yeah, I mean, it’s really an extension of the larger cruising market. Um, there has been a slowdown across the market, both in used and new. Um, but what’s interesting with the catamaran side is there’s still more people that want to go cruising. Um, and they’re not doing it through the traditional method of, you know, they read Cruising World and the Lin and Larry Pardey books, and then they buy a 25-foot boat, sail that for a few years, then get a slightly bigger boat, and then spend several years outfitting it, and then maybe eventually head out cruising. A lot of these folks don’t have necessarily the same depth in sailing. They want more of the comforts of home. They have more awareness of this environment through the vlogging and YouTube.
And there’s more of an understanding—you don’t have to sit in an office to do your job like you and I are doing right now. You know, we’re both working remotely. I do actually have a beautiful office; I just don’t seem to be in it very much. Um, and you know, with things like Starlink, it means people can remain connected. So there’s a greater awareness, there’s a greater ease, and then if they want to go cruising, they want to do it in a catamaran because, quite rightfully, they’re a lot more comfortable, which, regardless of the brand. And so there’s still that—it’s always going to keep people wanting to go into that catamaran side, but it has definitely slowed down from the craziness of the last few years. I would say it’s more—rather than saying it’s slow, I would say it’s more normal now than the frantic pace it was.
Interviewer:
Okay, very good. What’s the most popular Nautitech model that you’ve been observing?
Interviewee:
Definitely the 44. So I’m sitting on a 40 right now, uh, which is one of the older designs—still a great little sports car. Um, but then the 40, that extra four feet is very much in the saloon and galley area. It’s a new hull shape, so it’s considerably faster, more comfortable.
And then the 48, which came out last year, which just won European Yacht of the Year.
It expands on that 44, but a lot of folks don’t need that extra space of the 48.
The 44 does seem to be the Goldilocks kind of size for a lot of folks. And it’s the 44 I’ve got the most experience on. I helped clients do another transatlantic a year and a half ago on their 44. So, you know, Mom and Dad, two young kids, and myself, and you know, we still had plenty of space for—I was on board for six weeks, you know, going to help with the prep, preparation, do the crossing, and then, you know, spending time in St. Lucia, enjoying being in St. Lucia.
Interviewer:
Right. Yeah, the 44 seems to be a really great size as far as comfort and, like I said, space goes.
Interviewee:
Yeah, and then we’ve had clients that are like, “Nope, we want all that extra space,” and, you know, we’re not ever in the business of upselling, but I’m like, “Okay, yeah, here’s different options available with that little bit more volume.” And so it is right for some folks, but certainly most of my clients have gone with a 44.
Interviewer:
Okay. Uh, what’s the biggest obstacle that you see in selling Nautitech to people?
Interviewee:
Really, the education part. Uh, Nautitech is not a big company, um, and, you know, they don’t have a massive marketing department, so you don’t see as many, you know, really cool, jazzy magazine articles. Um, you know, I’m at the Miami show, and we’ve got a fairly small, simple stand, and then, you know, there’s pretty razmataz at some of the others with the loud pounding music, and that’s not really Nautitech. You know, they’re more confident in their brand. Um, and then the other part, really, it’s not really an obstacle, it’s just the reality—is a lot of folks, it’s a big decision. You know, it’s a big life-changing decision to go cruising. Um, and, you know, whether it’s the all-in like us, or six months on, six months off, it’s a big amount of money to spend, it’s a big change in lifestyle. And so folks get quite excited about it, and then, you know, my wife and I, Elizabeth and I, we’ll talk to them and talk about some of the, you know, here’s the realities of it. Um, and it’s not all margaritas on the beach. Um, and then folks need to decide, is that really something they want to do?
Interviewer:
Yeah, absolutely.
Interviewee:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
What do you see in the future for, like, maybe the next five years for Nautitech?
Interviewee:
Yeah, I mean, I have to be cognizant that I’m a big fan of Nautitech, I’m a dealer for Nautitech, but I don’t represent the factory. Um, so that would be a good question for them, what the next evolution is. Certainly the 44 is pretty new, the 48 is very new, and then we’ll have to see where they’re going to leap to next.
Interviewer:
What about the evolution of the brand or of the boats within Nautitech?
Interviewee:
Yeah, I mean, they are continually… So the 40 is the oldest of the three designs; it continues to benefit from the advances they’ve done on the 44 and the 48. Um, and Nautitech is maybe a bit more conservative when it comes to making changes. You know, it’s very easy—and, you know, this is when I’m working with this brand, or even on the used market, folks see a YouTube video of something, or read about it in a magazine, if people still read things, um, and, you know, “Oh, I’ve got to have this new thing and that new thing,” and, you know, Nautitech is very clear that, you know, these boats are for going places. They don’t want to get a phone call from the Tuoamotus that some newfangled thing is not working, and their whole adventure is down. So, you know, one of the examples is there’s a distributed power system on the vessel, which is, you know, pretty common now in these modern boats. This one’s called Sail Sense, but knowing, if anything’s electronic, there’s always a chance it’s not going to work. Um, so there’s a manual reversion, so you’re not completely dependent on a new electronic system. And then we teach the clients there are four big wire bundles that are color-coded, and you reconnect them, and then there’s a set of manual switches. So that kind of mindset—so not jumping to put the latest and greatest, and it has to make sense to add value to our client’s experience.
Because, again, it’s different. I mean, I race sometimes on a carbon cat that’s super awesome, but it’s a bit of a science experiment, and you know, when it’s broken, it’s broken for months. But it doesn’t really matter as much because it’s not anybody’s home; it’s not their one big adventure. And for that owner, you know, that’s part of the excitement—when it’s working, it’s a rocket ship. I mean we have gone 29 knots in it. Um, although we rapidly decelerated to 19 with a big green wave over the bow with my daughter working the foredeck. Anyway, um, but again, it has to be—and maybe this is the mechanical engineering me—it has to be fit for purpose. What’s the mission? And then, you know, is it worth a 5% incremental increase in performance if it’s going to increase reliability or it’s going to decrease ergonomics?
You know, you look at the layout of the 44, the 48, and the 40, you know, everything’s on one level. Whoever is on the helm can see and talk to somebody in the galley. Nobody’s going up and downstairs. You know, you could make it slightly faster by doing things, but would it take away from the ergonomics? You know, it’s already a fast enough boat, and it’s all about balance. So, you know, whatever they do, it’s going to be incremental.
Interviewer:
Nice. Very cool.
Well Max, I really appreciate you taking the time today to talk to us. Can you let everybody know how to get in touch with you?
Interviewee:
Yeah, certainly. Our website is www.YachtSalesWest.com. I’ll send you my… well, you’ve got my email address. Always happy to talk to folks, whether it’s about Nautitech, or just cruising in general, or catamarans. My wife and I actually travel around North America doing seminars. Mostly Liz is doing the seminars these days because I’m so busy with the boat shows. But she does women’s cruising clinics and offshore cruising workshops and all that stuff.
We’re always happy to talk to folks just about the lifestyle—cruising with kids. You know, it doesn’t just have to be the classic boat show where you come by a boat from us. The training side is really the fun part of the environment.
Interviewer:
Yeah, that’s certainly a great resource for people. Thank you so much, Max.
Interviewee (Max):
Awesome. Well, been great chatting, River. Thanks for putting this together. And too bad you couldn’t come down to Miami in person and enjoy.
Interviewer:
Oh my gosh, I really wish I could. I mean, it’s pretty cold here in California, so yeah, enjoy it.